karanguni | nom nom nom

Glad your trip went well! :D

What kind of book recs are you looking for?

Tell me about your new Kindle! I have an older Paperwhite that was a hand-me-down from my sister (she wanted an excuse to upgrade to a Voyage *g* and I wanted a Paperwhite and don't strictly need a fancier model) and I love it so much. I'm currently reading James S. A. Corey's Leviathan Wakes and enjoying it a lot.

I splurged on the way-too-expensive Oasis because I wanted to splurge on something. I've had Paperwhites since they came out - I was last on the 2014 one before the upgrade - and I do love it dearly. My only real beef with it was that I hated having to touch the screen, and so I was very tempted by the haptic sensors on the Voyage. But then the Oasis came out with the weighted handle and the PHYSICAL BUTTONS and I was sold.

I've never been able to go from being a physical book reader to thoroughly enjoying the flat paperwhite because it just.... doesn't make physical sense. I want a "chunk" of a book to hold on to, and the Oasis has finally kinda nailed that. It's much lighter in the hand, which offsets the fact that I don't have a second leaf to hold on to like last time. It's just... small, ergonomic things, really. I've only had it a day, but we shall see. All told, the Paperwhite's a beautifully great machine for the price, and I hate the fact that people have to shell out $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for what, to me, seems like a common-sense and necessary design upgrade.

ANYWAY, bookwise, I don't know what I've got besides "not stupid." I've blazed through your stuff, Leckie, and some other really great worldbuild and dialogue writers, and I'm finding myself back-buttoning a lot of books because god drab boring lame blah blah blah. Anything with OW THIS HURTS or NOT TERRIBLE LGBT would be amazeballs. Otherwise, since you're here, any nonfiction military reads that won't be like NARRATIVE OF BATTLE X AND THEN NARRATIVE OF BATTLE Y might be awesome. Strategy stuff?

Haha, I was about to rec you The Traitor Baru Cormorant then I saw the below and remembered you requested it for Yuletide. =) If you're willing to go to short stories, Seth's "Laws of Night and Silk" [Beneath Ceaseless Skies; free to read online, or you can freely download all of Issue #200, which includes it, in a variety of formats, including for the Kindle) might be up your alley. It utterly wrecked me when I read it.

Nonfiction military:
- The Wiles of War: 36 Military Strategies from Ancient China ISBN 0-8351-2795-8 or ISBN 7-119-01399-8, no author given, from Foreign Languages Printing House, Beijing, China. (Although maybe you know all of this already?) I was particularly smitten by the badass tale of the dude who was so loyal to his king or general (I can't find it in the book at the moment) that he had HIS ENTIRE FAMILY KILLED so he could go over to the other side and pretend to be a turncoat all in the service of getting intel for his king. O.o

- James F. Dunnigan & Albert A. Nofi's Victory and Deceit: Dirty Tricks at War. This was my plot bible for Ninefox! I basically went through the entire book, wrote down all the evil stratagems I liked, put them all in, then had to prune a bunch out because too much plot. XD It's a lot of fun.

- Geoffrey Blainey's Causes of War, which was one of the texts for a course called (guess!) Causes of War I took back in university. I have the 3rd ed. and the original edition dates back to 1977, so it's not going to have the latest and greatest on, say, 4GW, but I find it a useful read.

- Harold A. Winters with Gerald E. Galloway Jr., William J. Reynolds, & David W. Rhyne, Battling the Elements: Weather and Terrain in the Conduct of War. Lots of interesting case studies.

Awesome yes good. In the meanwhile I will await more Machineries, too :D :D

Ahahahaha. ^_^

(I don't know if you saw this, but "Extracurricular Activities" [Tor.com] is free to read online and is a short story about a Jedao caper set back when he was a hotshot starship captain.)

Edited (upon reflection, this is the appropriate icon) 2017-02-21 23:29 (UTC)

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Omg I am a couple of paragraphs in and beginning to now formulate the sense that Jedao has Jedao problems in no small part because MOTHER WHAT

XD Jedao's mother has...an interesting personality. She is based partly on Korean mothers (and also on a discussion I had once with a Jewish friend who works for the US Department of the Navy on how Jewish mothers and Korean mothers are RELATED).

(And if you haven't seen this one either, "The Battle of Candle Arc" [Clarkesworld, free to read online] is about...the Battle of Candle Arc. That one's pretty much straight milsf, though.)

/queues it up

Ahahaha yes, yes indeedy. Ajjuma-mode activate?

Yes, exactly! XD

Want... Jedao... happy... with kids... and geese... now.... damn it...

Oh--probably you've tried already, but maybe Max Gladstone's Craft Sequence? The first one is Three Parts Dead, although I started with the third book, Full Fathom Five, whose protagonist is a trans woman. I suspect the magic system would make much more sense to someone who has some kind of understanding of law and/or economics and/or finance (I suck at all three), but the prose is wicked sharp and the world is cool. And there are even Choice of Games text games set in the world; I played the first one, Choice of the Deathless [Choice of Games; you can play a teaser for free then pay $3.99 to unlock the rest], which describes itself as a "necromantic legal thriller."

I think I shall pick up the Craft Sequence! I've definitely had it floated by me once or twice, and I dance in the worlds around economics well enough...

OH. FMFRP 12-2 Infantry in Battle [PDF free to download from the, uh, US Marine Corps website; I used to have a paper copy, it should be public domain anyway]. It's an infantry manual from around WWI, very well written (not all US military manuals are equally penetrable by the layperson, anyway), some GREAT case studies, very dry sense of humor. I love it to pieces.

I also have the kindle oasis and it is soooo good but soooo bougie idek.

Recos: all of NK Jemisin's fiction. I'm plowing through her stuff and feeling my muse come back to life.

Curious if you have any recos? I need fiction that doesn't make me want to scream.

so good so bougie summarises this device.

What makes you want to scream? My pimp-dese-books-hard thing have been The Traitor Baru Cormorant (colonialism, lgbt characters, chessmaster on chessmaster), the eternal Iain M. Banks (Use of Weapons -> pew pew james bond in space opera with worldbuild yey) rec, but if you throw me a certain type of genre/trope/etc I could provide moar

The Traitor Baru Cormorant has been on my To Read list since the last time you pimped it although "colonialism, lgbt characters, chessmaster on chessmaster" sells it hard. My kindle needs it now.

Anything with Chessmasters, colonialism/post-colonialism, the sociology of class issues, and exploration of gender is a probably a win. Double win if it includes female characters with zero fucks left to give. Triple win if it does something *different* with SF/F worldbuilding or if it is alt-history or if it re-histories a place (historiographic metafiction).

TTBC fulfils your "female characters with zero fucks left to give" in many, many ways, and has many, many historiographic elements to it even if it's set in another world so yeah, go hit dat.

To go back to Iain M. Banks' The Culture series, I'd do Surface Detail over Use of Weapons - this one is ex-slave girl gets ripped out of her situation by benevolent post-scarcity Culture, and when presented with the choice of living happily ever after chooses instead to go back to her owner and fuck shit up instead, ft. one permanently raging warship AI.

Gender/class/etc - going to assume you've already probably hit up Le Guin's Left Hand of Darkness.

If you never read L'Engle's Wrinkle In Time et al, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND for different sf/f worldbuild.

I read much of Le Guin a million years ago. Same with L'Engle. Might revisit for the sake of revisiting but also curious to read recently published things because. just because.

Iain M Banks - will look into it!

TTBC = Purchased! Once I stop skim-reading 1001 Browser Tabs of Fanfic, I'll dive in.

Hmm. Most of what I've been reading on my Nook lately is fanfic, because I had a lot of backlog, and I haven't had the time/attention span for for longer novels, but some perennial favorite authors - William Gibson, China Mieville, Carol Berg, Patrick Rothfuss, Tamora Pierce, Neil Gaiman, Dianna Wynne Jones.

I've got a Rothfuss lined up, I feel like China Mieville has haunted my reading list for years, and everyone is usually pretty agape at me when I say I've never read a single Tamora Pierce or DWJ. xD

The Diana Wynne Jones I like best is Charmed Life, which has some great creepy moments and a fascinating dysfunctional sibling relationship and magic gone awry. Also a cat who is a fiddle.

My husband really likes Rothfuss. Although the caution with Rothfuss is that he has two books of a trilogy out, it's been ten years since the first book, and there's still no drop date on book three.

Rothfuss is excellent but you will probably lose like a week to his books because they are door stops. I love Mieville's world-building and prose but if you're prone to nightmares you might want to avoid it as bedtime reading - there is some pretty creepy stuff in there (wonderfully creepy, but creepy). Tamora Pierce and DWJ are both ostensibly YA authors, so their books are much quicker reads, and good for a pick-me-up.

Since you mentioned nonfiction military stuff in another thread, and you have a kindle, there was this book I enjoyed that's free on Kindle if you have Prime, with their like, "check out a book at a time" thing. The Imjin War. The dude who wrote it is an amateur historian and it shows at times... The book could have used a lot more editing (some parts ttly repeat themselves) and there are some points where he reports folklore tidbits like they're fact (which I discovered when I was like "whattttt" about this one dude who it said "dyed his coat with the first menstrual blood of virgins" b/c that just doesn't seem logistically feasible at all hahaha, so I found the original source material which is a legit book published by a major South Korean university, but it's like, obvious just flipping through it that most of the material is "entertaining hearsay/folklore/etc. from the court" and not intended as facts). BUT those issues aside it was an entertaining read, and I felt the dude was good at weaving a historical narrative. And lots of fun bits like quotes from various historical figures' diaries and so on. Though if you're already pretty familiar with the events it's about maybe it'd be less interesting. I wasn't familiar so it was both entertaining and informative. Not that it was the greatest book I ever read but the price was right. XD

Aside from that I read mostly nonfiction these days. A lot of it either about linguistics or manga or culture/politics in various countries that aren't mine lmao. Hmmm, past books... I dunno if it's on Kindle but have you ever read Company K? It's fiction but the author based it on his personal experiences in WWI. A bunch of short vignettes about war, pretty bleak but great writing iirc.

We haven't known each other that long so I definitely don't feel like I know your taste in fiction haha, but if you like horror at all, I'll throw a shout-out to one of my fave authors that like, almost no one I know has read afaik. XD Name is Jesse Bullington, and has three horror novels, all also historical fiction. I'd say, completely skip The Brothers Grossbart. The Enterprise of Death is about a black lesbian necromancer and is probably the best/most complete novel of Bullington's. Set sometime in the 1400s-1500s iirc. Does contain some noncon (probably not in the way you'd expect... I can provide more details but it'd be a bit spoilery). The deuteragonist is a ...painter dude who was maybe an ex-priest or something? (It's been a while since I read it haha.) Who has an open relationship with his wife and she like, fucks their servant and uses rosaries as anal beads. This book and Grossbart (the one I recommend AGAINST haha) are both very much into a lot of gross horror. Grossbart is the grossest (fittingly?) but this one still has a bunch, being about necromancy and all that. The 3rd book is probably my pet favorite, The Folly of the World, set in the 1400s in Holland. The 3 mains are a gay dude criminal with a rope/breathplay fetish, his sadistic/scheming boyfriend (probably gay but could also be interpreted as bi), and a young girl who's good at swimming. This book is less about the grossout horror and more about like, creepy atmosphere and a sense of unease. And also lots of 1400s Holland politics starting about halfway through lmao. Which is another hallmark of this guy's books, where like, all of the books take a hard turn somewhere in the middle and seem to become almost an entirely different type of story or have some giant time skip or both. Also he's got problems with endings. Grossbart was the worst in this regard. Enterprise does the best of the 3. Folly does something different that I have a whole bunch of tl;dr feelings about but I don't wanna spoil it. XD This author is also now writing a fantasy novel series under a different pen name (Alex Marshall) but I read like half the first book and didn't like it. TOO BAD, WISH HE'D GO BACK TO WRITING HORROR. Anyway so yeah. I'd say his main hallmarks are like, gross weird horror, always some amount of queerness, likes pairing up male & female main characters who have some kind of friendship/partnership that's not romantic/sexual. SO THERE'S MY SHILL FOR THIS RANDOM AUTHOR. XD

I recommend the Hawley on the Imjin War (Imjin Waeran in Korean) mainly because it's the single best in-print volume on the war in English. :] There's Imjin Changch'o and Nanjung Ilgi, which are respectively Admiral Yi Sun-Shin's memorials to court and his war diary, available in English translation (so, the closest that most English-only readers will get to Korean primary source documents), but without an additional volume to place the war into context they can be hard going, and they DESPERATELY need a revised edition with actual English proofreading, because the existing proofreading is atrocious, but it's unlikely Yonsei University will ever do that. :/ Stephen Turnbull's Samurai Invasion is probably in print, and has the advantage of being by an actual historian, but he's very much more focused on the Japanese perspective and Japanese sources, and there's at least one factual error (in the Battle of Myeongryang he states that the current reversed every three hours; I had my mother check against a Korean source and according to her, she found that it was every six hours, which...makes more sense. (I believe the Wikipedia article is getting its figures from the Turnbull.) There's an out-of-print book called Admiral Yi and His Turtleboat Armada, which I no longer own, unfortunately, because I never did get around to reading it to find out if the misleading title carried through to the contents. The geobukseon (turtle ships) were not all that numerous and were not the deciding factor in the naval battles, although Koreans like to make it sound like they were because it's a pretty story for the tourists. :) Anyway, that book goes for minimum $40 used so. :/

I'm sure there's tons on this war in Korean and Japanese, and some in Chinese as well; I talked once to Ken Liu about it because we had both written sf based on the Imjin War, and I think he indicated such. But in English? Not so much.

I was totally waiting for this comment to happen...

Also Turnbull wtf how many histories can a man write

...I am SO PREDICTABLE.

Yeah, I got onto Turnbull because I uh got into Japanese history by way of Legend of the Five Rings collectible card game, which is complete mashup hash samurai fantasy (with other random things thrown in--they even threw in turtle ships from Korean history except in a way that completely made no sense, ahahahaha, to say nothing of whoever wrote Way of the Unicorn does not understand anything about different horse breeds, but I digress) and the first book was fine, then I got another and it was like...a lot of the same stuff all over again?! And then I gave up. I wish now I'd taken an actualfax Japanese history course in college. (I took one that included the Imjin War, but it was specifically a military history about the Korean perspective on the Imjin War and the Korean War, with a one-minute side tour into the Japanese occupation that went more or less: "It was not militarily interesting because the Japanese just rolled right over 1910 Korea," heh.)

I majored in Japanese history and my memory of what was covered about the Imjin War is about that detailed. xD So much of what gets taught/learned depends on professors' interests, and most of the professors in my neck of the woods were more interested in other things. C'est la vie!

Also there was a decided interest in the faculty, it seemed, to avoid military history because - understandably - otherwise we'd all have been there just geeking it up over MAPS and FACTIONS and etc etc

Koreans are perhaps understandably obsessed with Admiral Yi but I have the bug particularly bad. XD My mom thinks it's the funniest thing ever but she totally enables me. In my case, the professor teaching that course was actually a classicist by training (for example, he's written a book on Salamis) BUT he has two adopted children from Korea, which I suspect is how he got interested in the first place. Prof. Barry S. Strauss, wonderful prof (I also had him for a course on "War, Citizenship, and Identity in Ancient Greece and Rome")--he's now chair of the History department at Cornell. :D

Despite my taking almost every course in the history department with the word "war" in it, Cornell when I was there was actually not a great place to study hardcore military history. Social history, yes, but if you wanted to get into nitty-gritty maps and tactics, not so much. For example, I took a course on "The American Civil War and Reconstruction," which was amazing and I loved it so much, but we spent ONE DAY on the military history/battles--everything else was social history. And I'm pretty sure you could spent an entire semester just dissecting a single ACW battle, God knows.

Yup. I don't actually know where one would go to study military history that wasn't military in some way itself... xD

That was the impression I eventually got, yeah. ^_^ It's probably just as well I didn't end up majoring in history (I switched to computer science, found I sucked at debugging, and landed in math) because basically I wanted to eat and having a history degree seemed like a great way to starve, but I really did love it. My dad says that if he could have studied something for love, it would have been history (he's a surgeon, and it turned out he fell in love with that too, so happy ending?), but yeah...eating.

(lol poking into this other thread)

That reminds me of the one war-focused class I took in college... The whole topic of the class iirc was "20th century American Wars" (though it also touched briefly on the Civil War) but yeah it was really more focused on social history. A little bit about certain military things but more about the social aspect WITHIN the military, or particular leaders and their social/political circumstances. It was a really fun class but I hadn't thought about how it didn't go into tactics/strategy much at all. 🤔 I guess that must be pretty common at most universities.

=)

Yeah, I desperately wanted TACTICS!!! and STRATEGY!!! but most (civilian) institutions aren't going to select for that especially??? Honestly my best bet would be hieing myself to the local game store (which caters a lot to war/miniature gamers) and asking around, except I live in Louisiana and my books have queer people in them and I'm...kind of afraid to ask for beta readers there. :]

I had heard of the Hawley and Turnbull books when I was reading that other book because they were both mentioned in it and also online in some interviews and discussions I looked up, heh, and from what I read it did sound like the Hawley was probably the superior of those three but I was like... Well I already read one book about it and while I could tell it definitely had some errors and probably more I didn't notice, I don't think I was enough into the whole thing to read another whole book going over the same events. XD (Even if better researched and/or focusing on a different perspective, etc.)

But haha anyway, ty for replying to my comment, I'm sure many others would rather opt for that book instead. XD

Out of curiosity, is this sf based on the Injin War by you and this other person written in English, or a different language? and where might one find said stories? :3 :3

I'm not sure whether Ken Liu's story is in English or Chinese. I've emailed him to ask what the title was and where it can be found, and get back to you. (Man, I wish I read Chinese...he does a lot of work translating Chinese sf into English, which is unspeakably cool.)

I have two: "Between Two Dragons" [Clarkesworld], which is sort of a science fictional future telling of the war (with a few changes), and "The Battle of Candle Arc" [Clarkesworld], which may not be what you're looking for; it's military sf and the battle tactics are lifted straight from the Battle of Myeongryang, which I did because I got sick of everyone and their brother lifting Cannae and all the famous Western battles, whereas unless you're Korean or Japanese or maybe Chinese, it's unlikely you've heard of Myeongryang. (Which is fine! I'm Korean and I didn't know anything about it until I took a course at college. :p) Anyway, there's even an unhelpful space battle diagram.

Sweet, thanks for the links! I haven't read much military sf before (like one book I started but didn't finish) so those'll be cool to try. :D

OMG, milsf varies tremendously...there is, for example, this whole strand of what I find to be scary rather right-wing milsf (Jerry Pournelle and so on), and then there are the people who write endless alternate history where they either rehash the American Civil War TO DEATH or else they do things like "WWII, but if aliens had landed and everyone had to ally against the aliens!!!"

David Drake's Hammer's Slammers books are about mercs and are sort of hardcore military action (Drake's a Vietnam vet); I really liked Rolling Hot, which is about a tank squad (? it's been a while) that has to go through the mission from hell. A number of his ebooks are available for free from Baen so hey. He's written a LOT and coauthored a bunch of things with people.

Elizabeth Moon's Kylara Vatta series features a women protagonist and isn't as bleak/gory as some other authors. Moon's a former Marine.

Jack Campbell's Black Jack Geary books are fun if you don't mind that the plots sort of start to repeat, but if Plucky Underdogs in Space Against All Odds are your kind of thing, it's fun. Campbell's former Navy so there's this nice element of extra verisimilitude ("Jack Campbell" is actually a not-secret pseudonym for John Hemry).

One I picked up recently and liked a lot, and which has more of a video game aesthetic (including "death-proofing" the characters so they can respawn, natch) is Jay Posey's Outriders--this one's more squad-level tactics, very visceral, great characterization which is not something you always find in milsf.

Okay, I'll stop spamming you now. XD

i'm kind of into the idea of alternate history in general, whether branching off from a war or whatever else, but then in practice i don't think i've read any in profic that i liked. XD maybe i just like the idea b/c i'm so into "what-if" style AUs in fanfic hahaha.

i used to be particularly interested in aerial combat... do u know of any good ones that focus on that? i'll look into some of these maybe tho. XD haha, it's hard, i think like i said in my top level comment, these days i don't read much fiction at all haha (even fanfic). mostly when i read i feel like reading nonfiction. but maybe i can see if my library has any of these to give them a try. :D

ah, i remembered the title of the one i tried to read and bounced off of. it was "the forever war," apparently by some dude named joe haldeman. i don't remember why i bounced off, either i was bored or annoyed, one of those two. XD my cousin had loaned it to me and i think i quit pretty early on.

I will ask around and see if I can find some good aerial combat recs for you. Are you also interested in space fighter type combat, or do you want strictly atmospheric flight?

And, OMG, it's probably heresy for me to say this, but I TOO BOUNCED OFF The Forever War. It's like one of the two most famous milsf books (the other one being, I suppose, OSC's Ender's Game) and I just couldn't.

Oh, if Ender's Game counts then I guess I have read one. XD Though I don't like that book either lol. But I did actually finish it. I didn't realize The Forever War was a classic of the genre. XD XD Well I'm glad I'm not alone in bouncing off it then, lol.

Hmm, either could be interesting, I think. There was some fun space combat (thought not fighter type combat) in another sf book I read sometime in the last year or two though I didn't like that book either haha (The Dark Forest). Anyway, no need to put yourself to any trouble asking around on my behalf though! If you don't know of any offhand that's okay haha.

(the next day): haven't read Candle Arc yet but read Between Two Dragons and THAT WAS GREAT! The worldbuilding was really evocative and I enjoyed it even more recognizing the history it was based on. XD So thanks for that rec!!

=D I'm glad you enjoyed it! I think that one's probably just that little bit more fun for readers who know the history, yeah. XD

Expectedly great food? Please elaborate! I love it when people talk about food (I am just a big foodie at heart)

Fried chicken, fried pickles, fried green tomatoes, shrimp and grits... :D :D :D The shrimp and grits in particular were pretty great; they cut the creaminess with a white wine and tomato broth/sauce thing. Mmm.

*squints* You weren't in Louisiana by any chance??? (No, you don't need to tell me! Just, I made shrimp and grits the other night...) THAT IS THE FOOD WE HAVE DOWN HERE YO. Ngl, I can't afford to eat the local food too often but damn if it doesn't taste so good. ^_^

Alas, no - Georgia!

Well, if you're ever down Baton Rouge way, look me up. *g*

Sounds like some fine eats in Georgia! I've never been there, but man, you are making me hungry. ^_^

Well, if you read Finnish, I'd try to pawn my BSc thesis. (It doesn't contain any heterosexuality – by virtue of being on the photocatalytic properties of thinfilms and the improving thereof.) :P

For books in English, I've recently-ish enjoyed David Brin's Startide Rising, though that does not contain LGBT. Tanya Huff's Confederation series and Chris Moriarty's Spin State + sequels are also good and lacking in LGBT. The other rec would be Leckie, of course, which you mention having read. Anti-rec for Ken MacLeod's Newton's Wake, on grounds of Funetik Akzint everywhere.

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IMJIN WAR!!! (sorry, this is the one war I'm obsessed with)

Re: IMJIN WAR!!! (sorry, this is the one war I'm obsessed with)

Re: IMJIN WAR!!! (sorry, this is the one war I'm obsessed with)

Re: IMJIN WAR!!! (sorry, this is the one war I'm obsessed with)

Re: IMJIN WAR!!! (sorry, this is the one war I'm obsessed with)

Re: IMJIN WAR!!! (sorry, this is the one war I'm obsessed with)

Re: IMJIN WAR!!! (sorry, this is the one war I'm obsessed with)

Re: IMJIN WAR!!! (sorry, this is the one war I'm obsessed with)

Re: IMJIN WAR!!! (sorry, this is the one war I'm obsessed with)

Re: IMJIN WAR!!! (sorry, this is the one war I'm obsessed with)

Re: IMJIN WAR!!! (sorry, this is the one war I'm obsessed with)

Re: IMJIN WAR!!! (sorry, this is the one war I'm obsessed with)

Re: IMJIN WAR!!! (sorry, this is the one war I'm obsessed with)

Re: IMJIN WAR!!! (sorry, this is the one war I'm obsessed with)

Re: IMJIN WAR!!! (sorry, this is the one war I'm obsessed with)

Re: IMJIN WAR!!! (sorry, this is the one war I'm obsessed with)

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