Lesson 1 - Checkin

[karanguni]

Hello everyone! The end of the week is here. How is everything going? Q&A is open for anything: questions about the lessons, or about random grammar.

I realise I never quite gave out readings beyond the N2+ article; I'll remedy next week. Had a busy one myself moving my entire personal library out from boxes (!!! books are heavy; don't play around).

Instead, here's a step through of the introduction of the article in question.

This is going to be translation practice for me - please do call out anything you think I've gone wrong or done funny. I'm going to only explain choice parts of the reading/translation, so feel free to also pull up bits and ask questions!

Title: 名前のルール～姓と氏名と本名と～（日本史・古代～江戸時代）
The Rules of Names ~ "Mei" and "Shimyou" and "honmyou" and... (Japanese History from ancient times to the Edo Era)

皆さんの名字は何でしょう？
What is your surname (myouji)? [1]

では、氏は？姓は？
And what about your surname (shi)? Or your surname (mei)?

何だか全部同じ意味なのに、何でこんなに種類があるのかと思うかもしれません。
You might be wondering why so many terms exist when they all mean the same thing. [2]

実はこれ、全て違う意味を持っています。
Truth be told, all three terms have different meanings.

明治以降はこれらが全て統一されたため、ややこしいことになっているようですが、時代劇を見ると「やけに長い名前だな？」と思う事もあるのでは？
Even though the terms "myouji", "shi" and "mei" have become conflated since they were streamlined after the Meiji era, I'm sure that there have been times when you've watched a period drama and thought, "Aren't those really long names?"

今回は、そんなお話をしたいと思います。[3]
I hope to talk about this topic in this article.

Gloss

[1] 皆(みんな）さん でしょう？

Lit: People reading, what might ?

Many Japanese articles will open with a rhetorical device where they address the (plural) audience and ask a question that leads into the topic at hand. That's why you'll notice the use of 皆さん in the plural, even though I've opted to translate the English more naturally into a single person "you".

The でしょう at the end, inflected from です, is a way of coming across as inquisitive as opposed to interrogative. (Read: here)

[2] ~ と思（おも）うかもしれません

Lit: You probably think ~

This is another rhetorical device you'll see in articles a lot. "Might"/かもしれない (read) is often tacked on so that - again - the author doesn't sound like they are simply making statements.

[3] 今回（こんかい）は、そんなお話（はなし）をしたいと思(おも）います。

Lit: This time, I think that I would like to discuss [this topic]

This is a more or less set phrase: most introductions end with a blunt statement that "we are going to go into [X TOPIC]". The ~たいと思います (I think I want to do X") should not be directly translated for that reason. While you could say ～たいです ("I want to do X"), ~と思う is used non-literally to describe an author's intentions.

[4] Literal versus non-literal translations

And, finally, a general thought on translation: translating literally, whether from JP -> EN or EN -> JP, is often awkward and sometimes impossible. Where that is the case, I will usually translate such that the translation reads natively and provide literal translations on the side. I have a whole post I want to write about why this tug of war of compromise leads to retranslations of work over time...

Comments

[yhlee]

*wince* I spent the weekend in a state of almost total mental collapse/recuperation after turning in novel edits on Thursday. (In particular, I'm waiting in agony to hear whether they're going to demand a fourth round.) Joe has suggested that I consider this Vacation Week until I hear from my editor, so tomorrow I will actually knuckle down and work on Japanese, especially now that my copy of Genki has arrived. (It was delayed due to the highways shutting down for two days thanks to snow/ice in Louisiana--we don't have the infrastructure to de-ice roads. I'm still waiting on a couple packages that were delayed, grr.)

ご免なし。。。 (???)

[karanguni]

もっと適当な表現は「申し訳ありません」

Sorry the weather sucks! Can't imagine that happening down south for some reason.

[cafemassolit]

I have done some reading: from the kanji book (the designated pages) and a bit from the accessible grammar curiosities book. Decided to practice kanas before proceeding with the lesson material, but couldn't quite manage either: my evenings were taken up by socializing. so I guess the goals get pushed back a little, which makes me cross with myself -- but I hope to be able to report at least some kana accomplshment by the end of this week! Can't allow myself to weasel out of it different script forever lol; and the excuse of playing host to a friend staying over no longer applies, since i'm free as of this evening.

[karanguni]

/cheers on!

Playing host is freaking exhausting though. I never get anything done when people visit, and for a few days after, too...

[yhlee]

Really stupid question about typing ひらがな and カタカナ with dakuten:

So there’s し and じ ("ji"), but how do you get ち and the dakuten version (also "ji")?
Likewise, there’s す and ず ("zu"), but how do you get つ and the dakuten version (also "zu")? Likewise the カタカナ. I am at a loss.

[karanguni]

My bad - ち + dakuten does not exist: I'll fix the doc later!

づ is usually acquired in IMEs by typing "du" for reasons beyond my knowledge.

[yhlee]

ありがとう！

[kurayami_hime]

If I had to venture a guess it's because it's building off the kunrei-shiki way of romanizing rather than the more common (these days) Hepburn style.

For example Syunsuke and Shunsuke are both 100% correct ways of writing the name しゅんすけ in English, but the former looks weird because it's using kunrei-shiki and being all internally consistent (s + what comes after: sa, si, su, se, so, syu, etc.). Hepburn is all "that's dumb, why don't we write this the way it, you know, sounds, internal consistency be damned?" You'll note that you can get し by typing si or shi.

And kami don't get me started on long vowels vs short in name transliterations. If I had a nickel for every time I've had to explain to an English-only speaker that Mr. Goto and Mr. Gotou are the same person, I'd easily be able to buy a soda at 2018 vending machine prices.

[karanguni]

You know, that makes total sense that it is da di du de do だ・ぢ・づ・で・ど; /facepalm

[kurayami_hime]

My particle workbook is still giving me the stink-eye, but I did watch a couple episodes of 相棒 and the news, and I had the brilliant realization that while, sure, I can be lazy and use Rikai-kun on my computer to make the reading go faster, I'm more likely to sit down and do the reading if I have a piece of paper in front of me and I'm not at my computer. So I've printed it out . . . and it has joined the particle notebook in giving me the stink-eye. In my 申し訳ない defense (is that a contradiction?), work attacked with a vengeance yesterday and ate up my productive time. But self, you say, you should have done all this before Monday. To which self replies うるさい. >_>

Edited to add: !!! yeeeesssss gloss #4. I have Opinions when it comes to literal vs non-literal translations that really come down to "what's the audience?" For most things, natural is best, but I've dealt with a lot of legal translations, and in those you want to stick as close to the Japanese as possible. If it doesn't say 私は何々, you don't get to say "I." Make that sentence passive, put the assumed subject in brackets, anything that isn't adding words that aren't there. The other side is going to object so hard, your head's going to spin.

Also also, if at any point people feel the need for encouragement via stories of people who should know better completely borking up the 日本語, I am happy to share. Like that time I tried to figure out how to type 引継.

"Okay, that first one is ひく, and the onyomi for that is イン. And the other one . . . that's in continue -- 継続 [けいぞく] -- so that's ケイ.”

::types in いんけい::

::hits space bar::

陰茎

"Goddamn it, that's not the word I want."

[karanguni]

(陰茎＝penis, for everyone watching)

/snorfles

Of course that's read ひきつぎ somehow. Oh dear.